captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. the obama administration rolls out new proposals to help middle class americans. >> ifill: and i'm gwen ifill. on the newshour tonight, would new tax credits for children w1 and the elderly win over main street without losing wall street? >> woodruff: then, an iraq update after deadly bomb blasts hit hotels in baghdad. >> ifill: as threats and plots multiply around the world, how strong is al qaeda? margaret warner poses that question to a former c.i.a. officer.

>> the adversary is growing in its own sophistication, running different types of operations. and as we hit them in certain areas, neutralize capability, they shift to other things. >> the latest from haiti whereas many as 1 million p >> woodruff: the latest from haiti, where as many as one million people are still homeless. ray suarez is in port-au-prince, where he talked with paul farmer, the u.n.'s deputy special envoy, even as international donors meet in montreal to figure out how to help. >> ifill: and a fish story. tom bearden reports on the battle against the invasive giant asian carp. >> they are biological terrorists. and if they get in our great lakes , and hit, impact the ecology and economy, two different canadian provinces, it could cost billions. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's "pbs newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour is provided by:

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toyota. grant thornton. and the william and flora hewlett foundation, working to solve social and environmental problems at home and around the world. and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. and... this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: president obama offered a small peek today at what he'll say wednesday night in his state of the union address. it was a new attempt to offer help to the country's long- struggling middle class. >> today's announcement was the president's latest effort to shift focus back

to the economy and recapture the political initiative. he addressed the middle class task force chaired by vice president biden. >> we're going to keep fighting to rebuild our economy so that hard work is once again rewarded, wages and incomes are once again rising, and the middle class is once again growing. >> the proposals include doubling the child care tax credit for families earning less than $85,000 a year. capping the size of student loan repayments, increasing aid for families taking care of elderly relatives, and creating automatic retirement savings accounts at the workplace. >> the middle class has been under assault for a long time. too many americans have known their own painful recessions long before any economists declared that there was a recession. >> discontent with the state of the economy and 10% unemployment weighed heavily among voters in massachusetts last week. and republican scott brown

capitalized, winning a vacant u.s. senate seat and dealing a blow to the president's agenda. mr. obama has since tried to address rising anger against wall street, proposing limits on the size and scope of the biggest banks. and white house officials today called for a bipartisan task force on cutting the federal deficit, another issue that has been hurting the president. >> there is just this sense of anxiety, of frustration, of anger, the electorate is looking to take it out on somebody. >> last week it appeared the latest target might be federal reserve chairman ben bernanke has been nominated for a second term. senate support appeared to erode over his efforts to rescue the financial system. but senate leaders moved to tamp down the opposition over the weekend. >> i believe that his confirmation will be assured. >> are you on the same page? >> i'm going to vote for him. >> republican leader mitch

mcconnell would not foretell his own vote but predicted bernanke will get his second term. >> he is going to have have bipartisan support in the senate and anticipate he would be confirmed. >> will you vote for him. >> will have bipartisan support. >> as bernanke worked to rally support today, several more senators moved in to his column. >> i'm going to support chairman bernanke's nomination. >> and white house spokesman robert gibb voiced optimism. >> this sends a signal to greater an overall stability to have his nomination proved without political damage. and that is what we expect will happen later this week. >> for now bernanke's improving prospects appeared to help calm wall street. the dow jones industrial average gained fearly 24 points to close near 10,000 one-- 10,197. it had fallen more than 400 points last week. the nasdaq rose five points today to close above

2210. >> for a >> woodruff: for a closer look at the president's moves and messages to both main street and wall street, we get the views of two economic thinkers. robert reich is professor of public policy at the university of california at berkeley. he served as secretary of labor under president clinton. and martin feldstein is professor of economics at harvard university and president emeritus at the national bureau of economic research.6a- entlemen, thank you batt for being with us. professor feldstein to you first, if these initiatives the president announced today samed at helping the middle class child care tax credit retirement savings accounts at the workplace, and so forth, if these were enacted into law how much difference would they make ? >> well, it wouldn't make much difference at all. i like the workplace retirement plan , automatic retirement in workplaces, i think that would make a big

difference-- . >> woodruff: professor, i'm going to have to interrupt you, unfortunatey we're having an audio problem here. we're going to get that fixed and come right back to you. and while we do i am going to turn to professor reich. same question, if these initiatives were to become law, how much would they help the middle class? >> judy, i think they're all worthwhile. they are small steps in the direction of helping the middle class. i don't think anybody's sense of anxiety and unhappiness and worry would be changed dramatically. but doing such things as capping repayments that students have to make when they are deeply indebted to student loan authorities with regards to their college loans, that could make a difference. helping with child care and with elder care, again, all of these could make a difference. but not major differences. >> woodruff: now bond that, we know robert reich, the public would love for the president to just create millions of jobs. how much can he really do in that direction?

>> not all that much at this point, judy. the only thing that really will generate more jobs is a larger stimulus. right now the state governments, because constitutional provisions prohibit the states from running deficits, right now the states are runing what might be called an anti-stimulus package in the range of $350 billion this year and next. they are raising taxes, they are cutting services, they are cutting jobs, and that is a huge fiscal drag on the country right now. what the federal government could do, what obama could do if he had the votes, and of course with scott brown there it is not clear he has the votes, but would be to help state and local governments right away. this would immediately help the situation. >> woodruff: all right, martin, i believe we have you back, i hope so. we were asking, i was asking about jobs. how much can the president do, and how much should he do to help goose up job

creation. >> well, i think there are things he can do. and i would emphasize two things. one is we've got to fix the situation with the banks and the mortgage loans, both the residential mortgage loans and the commercial real estate. that stops the banks from lending, and that stops small and medium size businesses from expanding and hiring people. so the administration should go back to that issue. >> woodruff: and in what way. i mean what exactly are you saying they should do. >> well, i think one of the key problems is that high loans to value ratios, homeowners who owe more than their homes are worth are defaulting. those properties are being foreclosed. and there have been suggestions and i've made suggestions that, about how the administration could

deal with that problem, could induce the creditors to reduce their -- reduce their balances for those borrowers. but we're not seeing any progress in that direction at all. i think the other thing the administration needs to do is to give people some confident that the very large fiscal deficit that loom out this year after year, are going to be brought under control. and the kind of spending programs the administration has been doing for the last year won't continue. >> woodruff: well, let me turn to robert reich and ask him about those two points, about moving to shore up homeowners in the way that martin feldstein described and then what he just was describing about the deficit. >> judy, one simple way to help homeowners that are worried about foreclosure would be to change the law

and allow them to declare bankruptcy, personal bankruptcy and personal bankruptcy with regard to debts on their first home mortgages. right now homeowners can do that, can bring their second homes into bankruptcy. they can bring commercial real estate into bankruptcy. but they cannot under the law bring their first primary residences into bankruptcy. doing that would give homeowners much more bargaining leverage with banks in terms of negotiating better deals. wall street doesn't like this very much. but if the obama administration really wants to show the public that it is standing up to wall street, and if congress is willing to do that, this would be enormously helpful. as to professor feldstein's second point, i agree completely that the administration has got to do something about long-term deficits. but short-term deficits are very, very different. in fact, if anything, the administration should not worry and yet americans kind of make americans more confident that short-term deficits may be actually

necessary in order to get people back to work and the economy growing again so that long-term deficits can get under control. >> woodruff: martin feldstein, let me ask you to respond to that. and i quickly want to ask you about what the president has been doing, getting tougher on the big banks in the last few days. >> fiscal deficits this year, 2010 and 20011 are to the the problem. but 2015, 2018, those are years when we shouldn't be looking at large deficits. and the only way to deal with that is to bring spending under control. and there we are not seeing anything coming from the administration. >> woodruff: and what about with regard to the measures the president has been suggesting recently, basically putting restrictions on the kind of business that the biggest bank s can do. >> that is certainly not going to help. it's not going to hurt very much either that business will get done. it just won't get done in the banks.

and if it moves to nonbank institutions, to hedge funds and others, they're going to be less supervised. and that can increase the risks in the system. i say what the president is doing as an attempt to answer his critics and say that he and secretary geithner and ben bernanke have been too kind to the banks, too kind to wall street. and so the president is looking for ways to counterthat image. but it's really an image creation rather than substance that we're getting there. >> and robert reich, i think you see this bank move, these bank moves differently. >> yes, there should be no entity in the capitalist system, judy, that is too big to fail. and i think it's necessary for the president to be very clear about resurrecting something called the glass-steagall act which was a 1930s provision designed to separate investment banking from commercial banks so that investment

banks essentially could not use commercial deposits in the great casino called the stock market. well, he's moving in that direction. not quite there. paul volker's suggestion is not exactly that. but it is a move in the right direction. and as to allowing regulators to basically set limits to the risk and the size of banks, that is also a step in the right direction. i think i would prefer to go a little bit further and use the anti-trust laws to make sure that no large financial institutions got simply too large, that they were, in effect, too big to fail. >> woodruff: at a time like this, martin feldstein, how do you describe the president's obligation to do something for ode americans, for the middle class. versus or and in addition to, making it possible for these banks and other businesses to do the kind of open business that they want to continue to do. >> they are really quite separate issues. and again i would say that

whether the major banks, the investment banks, get to do proprietary trading or that moves somewhere else in the economy is really not a significant issue in terms of what really matters which is bringing the employment numbers back up. there are 15 million americans who are out of work. there are 9 million more who are on short time this are a couple million more who have given up looking because they don't think there are jobs. and none of these initiative its deal at all with that problem. >> woodruff: and to what extent is the president obligated to do that. you are saying that should be a chief obligation? >> well, i think that's critical. i think we see that the fed has done everything that it can possibly do. and i think what is holding back is that small and regional banks around the country are afraid to lend, unwilling to lend because of

the problem of commercial and residential real estate. and businesses are afraid to make commitments because they fear that the projected fiscal deficits are going to lead to higher interest rates and higher taxes on business. and the president's anti-business rhetoric certainly doesn't reassure them. >> and robert reich, how do you come down on that? >> well, i don't think businesses are reluctant to invest because they worry about future deficits. i think businesses are reluctant to invest, judy, because they don't see customers out there and there are no customers out there for many businesses because people are so scared. they are losing their jobs. and their wages are frozen, essentially, or many are settling for lower wages. and this gets back to, basically, whether you want a short term stimulus or not. i think we do need a short term stimulus. i have given you my best suggestion as to what that should be. that is help for state and local governments but there are other things that can be done. the point is

that john-- is being john keynes, his theorys from the 1930s are being exhumed. about what we need to do when there are no other real sources of demand in the system. consumers have pulled back. investors have pulled back. exports cannot be relied on. the only remaining buyer of last resort is the government. >> woodruff: gentlemen, we thank bout, martin feldstein, robert reich. >> thanks, judy. >> thanks. >> ifill: now, the other news of the day, here's hari sreenivasan in our newsroom. >> sreenivasan: an ethiopian airlines plane crashed early this morning just off beirut, lebanon. 90 people were on board, but there was no sign of survivors. the boeing 737 caught fire and plunged into the mediterranean sea minutes after taking off. plane debris washed up on shore, and search and rescue crews recovered at least 21 bodies. investigators said stormy weather could have been a factor in the crash. lebanese president michel suleiman said there was no sign that terrorism was involved. in iraq, baghdad was hit by a

series of bombings on the same day that a notorious henchman of saddam hussein was executed. we have a report narrated by lindsey hilsum of independent television news. >> three suicide car bombs in baghdad today. all targeted at hotels where foreigners stay. the bombers didn't get right inside. but still managed to kill more than 30 people and injure 70 others. >> reporter: neighboring houses are were blown apart. firefighters helping survivors to safety. as iraq heads towards elections in early march, such attacks are expected to continue or increase. the americans say the perpetrators are probably al qaeda in iraq, a largely sunni group supported by some members of saddam hussein's now banned ba'ath party. today one of the most

notorious ba'athists, better known as chemical ali was hanged. a judge read the sentence a week ago. >> thanks be to god, he responded. it was his fourth death sentence for genocide and crimes against humanity. iraqi army video was used as evidence in court. here he is seen presiding over the abuse of shi'a prisoners captured during the uprising in 1991 which followed the invasion of kuwait. he gained his nick name after commanding the chemical gas attack on the kurdish town in 1988 during the iran-iraq war. unsurprisingly in that town today, the news of his hanging nearly seven areas after his capture was greeted with approval. >> we the families of mar tirs here are very pleased to hear that he was executed. >> reporter: but in tikrit,

the hometown of chemical ali and saddam hussein tribal loyals. >> i give my condolences to the iraqi people on the martyrdom of ali hasan al-majid who was assassinated by traitors. >> reporter: today's explosion shows that iraq is still volatile. maybe more so since the predominantly shi'a government barred many sunni candidates from standing in the coming elections. the contrasting reacts to today's execution shows how divided iraq remains. as it struggles to overcome the legacy of dictatorship, invasion and war >> sreenivasan: there was new talk today of reconciling afghanistan's government with taliban fighters. president hamid karzai said he wants to let militants lay down their weapons and go home, so long as they are not affiliated with al qaeda. karzai spoke in istanbul, turkey, three days before an international conference on afghanistan in london.

he said gathering international support was key. >> in the past, this effort by the afghan government did not have the backing or the support of our international partners. this current effort, this renewed effort, i should say, has the backing of our partners, in particular the united states and europe. >> sreenivasan: at the same time, the nato commander in afghanistan said he hopes an influx of troops will force taliban leaders to accept peace. general stanley mcchrystal suggested former taliban could even join the government. he said, "i think any afghans can play a role if they focus on the future, and not the past." also today, nato officials announced two more soldiers-- one british, one norwegian-- have been killed in bombings in afghanistan. the u.s. military will speed up a review of more than 4,300 iraq and afghanistan veterans. they were discharged with post- traumatic stress disorder, or p.t.s.d., between 2002 and 2008.

seven veterans have filed a class action lawsuit. they claim the military illegally denied benefits to those discharged with p.t.s.d. vice president biden's son will not run for his father's old u.s. senate seat in delaware. in an e-mail, beau biden told supporters he plans to seek reelection as state attorney general instead. that leaves republican congressman mike castle, a former two-term governor, without a democratic opponent. general motors made ed whitacre its permanent c.e.o. today. he had filled the job on an interim basis since december, when the automaker's board ousted fritz henderson. whitacre is also g.m.'s chairman, but he said today he had not expected to take on the job of permanent c.e.o. >> i certainly didn't come into this with that intention. but as so often happens, you get in the middle of something, and you start to like the people, you make leadership changes, feel comfortable with them, feel optimistic about the future.

you sort of get pulled in. >> sreenivasan: new c.e.o. whitacre also said today g.m. will repay the more than $8 billion the company owes the u.s. and canadian governments in june. those are some of the day's main stories. i'll be back at the end of the program with a preview of what you'll find tonight on the newshour's web site. but for now, back to judy. >> woodruff: and still to come on the newshour, the state of the al qaeda organization and the battle against a giant fish. >> ifill: that follows our update on haiti, where the relief workers are still laboring to get help to all who need it. newshour correspondent kwame holman begins our coverage. >> nearly two weeks after the earthquake haitian survivors are struggling just to find a place to sleep. the united nation its now reports nearly one million people have been left homeless. that's one of every nine haitians. there are two few tents and not nearly enough safe buildings. as u.s. air drops continue

day and night, the u.n. also says food aid has reached half a million people but two million are in need. and questions continue about how well the aid effort is working. a crew from independent television news spotted this convoy at one camp. some grew angry as they were asked to complete written forms even though many could not read or write. a few sacks of rice were unloaded before the u.n. troops grew concerned about the crowds and ordered the food reloaded and driven away. >> our house is crumbling. we are hungry and there is nothing to do. we found this. we take it. >> hunger and anger have fueled more looting in port-au-prince as this crowd today scoured for whatever food they could find. but while the fight for supplies continues so did the burial of the dead. the government said the count has reached $150,000 bodies but thousands more still could be under the rubble.

this couple picked through what's left of their home to find the body of their son. >> he is our first born, our flesh and blood. we want to bury him, not have him rot under the rubble. >> the search for survivor its officially is over but on saturday this man emerged from a collapsed building 11 day its after the quake. >> i want to tell the rescue people not to stop, not to give up because they can find people like me. coy have survived longer, another two or three days under the rubble. maybe there are more people alive and they can fine them. >> still, haitian authorities now are focused on the survivors urging them to leave the wrecked capitol. so far chartered buss have evacuated more than 200,000 refugees to the countryside. nearly half of those have gone to the north, a city that was decimated by back-to-back hurricanes in 2008. even so, earthquake survivors said they had little choice.

>> i lost everything and the situation there is not good. here it is not very good either but i will stay until we see what happens down there. >> reporter: in the meantime, far from the scenes of destruction, world leaders met in montreal today to collaborate on haiti's recovery. >> ifill: after the meeting ended this afternoon, secretary of state hillary clinton announced the u.s. will host an international donors conference at u.n. headquarters in new york in march. among those participating today was paul farmer, a u.n. official with long ties to haiti. ray suarez spoke with him before he left for the meeting in >> paul farmer is the united nations deputy special envoy to haiti. in that capacity, his boss is former president bill clinton. farmer has been working in medicine in haiti for more than two decades. we caught him at the port-au-prince airport on his way to a donor's conference in montreal. >> hi, how are you doing. >> he says. the number one job now nor haiti's injured thousands is

coordinating the delivery of services from throngs of volunteers. >> coordination is very difficult as i'm sure you've seen already. there are so many volume canized groups trying to do good that it is very difficult for the government or the u.n. or any organization to coordinate them. and then i said delivery because it seems to me having worked here a long time that delivery is always a stumbling point. >> suarez: those people are here as part of a sort of international gush of goodwill towards haiti in its tragedy. do you let that energy role to take advantage f people land with a mobile unit and want to start fixing people up, do you let that go on. >> it's a tough call. i mean i would be relauck tenant. i'm not an authorized spokesperson for the haitian people. but i think one of the things i have heard from my friend its and coworkers who

are haitian, we can't afford to be turning-- burning, you know, gestures of goodwill right now. so i think in a way you are obliged to let that gush of goode will flow. it's not easy. it's not pleasant and i'm sure it's very frustrating for people who have been here a long time or people who are really trying to coordinate. but i don't see how you can say you know, go away. what you have to do is say look, let's plan this out. this not something that is going to be over in two or three weeks or two or three months. this rebuilding, you know, you've been all the places i've been, rebuilding it is going to take many, many years. and in the short term we've got to, you know, focus on some immediate needs as well. so i-- as difficult as it is, i don't think that we're in a position to be rejecting goodwill. >> suarez: there are now thousands of people who are in medical terms, on different but parallel tracts. people who need another week of treatment. people who need another two months of treatment.

and people who need another year of treatment. how do you meet all those needs at the same time with such a degraded infrastructure? >> well, it's a very-- it is a big challenge. and i will just go through each one of those very briefly. the short-term need s, the acute needs, for example, amptation or debridement of a wound, those are in a way the easier things to do. but then comes, you know, you have to have prosthesis, you have to have wound care. and in the first couple of days as i'm sure you've heard, we try to focus our efforts. and president clinton did this as well, on trauma, orthopedic, you know, the needs of people who were injured in the event, in the earthquake. but now we're going to have to have rehab medicine, a

lot better post-op nursing. the real challenge will be rebuilding here in port-au-prince and further south. you foe you are going to have to have a massive rebuilding of public health infrastructure now. hospitals, clinics, health posts. and that's going to require significant investment of capital. human capital, but it's going to create lots of jobs, rebuilding that. those safe hospitals and safe schools, i think, you know, we have to also regard that as a chance to create jobs. those are what are needed most, are jobs. >> suarez: let's talk about the chance created by this terrible moment in haiti's history. there is no long tradition of competent, caring, efficient provision of government services in this country. so starting from scratch creates some opportunities to right some past wrongs, and end up with something better at the end. >> well, you know, as you probably have heard already, i've been working with president clinton the last

several months, working with the u.n.. he's the special envoy for haiti. unfortunately many of the people we're working with perished in the earthquake. and it is his, president clinton's view, that that is exactly what we should be doing. that we should... you know, he taught me something in 2008, he used this expression, i guess after the tsunami about building back better. and i just asked him, what does that mean. there weren't institutions in the first place. and he said just what you said, you know, you have to seize this moment to start a fresh. and you know, give it a new try. and so i think people... better minds than mine who know things beyond health care and medicine believe that now is a time to rethink public infrastructure. rethink the city. as you have seen, you can't have two, three million people living, you know, in such a densely packed area.

i can't imagine that people are going to want to rebuild port-au-prince in the same way it was, which is to say this sprawling, unplanned, you know, city. so that is why i'm leaving haiti and going into montreal with no coat today. is because i think there are a lot of people meeting, or a group of key people meeting to talk about how we can build back better. maybe i just have to leave in-- believe in that message to kind of get through the next few months. >> suarez: what's the pitch when you go to montreal? how do you think the-- keep the world engaged and understanding that this is a long-term front? >> i don't know but we're all going to try. especially those of us who have been engaged in haiti for a long time. we're going to have to be very explicit that transient interest in this problem is not only unhelpful but very destructive. and that's what we have had to date. there is a wave of interest, there is a crisis. and people pay attention. there a crisis and people pay attention from outside. if you are a trauma surgeon, i think it's just fine that you feel good after you get

back on the plane. you know, that's what we ask the orth pedestrianists and others who are helping us now, that is what we want them to do, is come in, intervene. i think they can go, and those who are working with them w a clean conscience. but the rest of us, you know, who are involved in other projects, rebuilding the health care infrastructure, thinking with about education, thinking about economic development, even tourism, we cannot have this, you know, transient interest. we have to get that message out. >> suarez: when asked about a successful example of the kind of rebuilding he's prescribed for haiti, dr. farmer has a ready answer. rwanda, torn by genocide and civil war, now stable and even sending aid to haiti. he's recommending a ten-year rebuilding program for haiti.

>> ifill: now we begin the first in a series of conversations about the evolving nature of al qaeda. margaret warner has the story. luis rueda spent 28 years in the cia, mostly as an agent and station chief in the field, including in the middle east and south asia. his last assignment was dwep tee director for counterintelligence at the cia's counterterrorism center. where he dealt with double agent operations and security. he retired on january 1st on the heels of the foiled christmas day airliner plot and the deadly double agent attack on a remote cia outpost in afghanistan. i spoke to him earlier today at his home on capitol hill a. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> warner: osama bin laden or a voice saying he was osama bin laden this weekend hailed the christmas day bomb attempt, the same attack that al qaeda had already taken credit for. now one, do you believe this is osama bin laden, but more importantly what-- if so, what does it is a about how al qaeda is operating today?

>> it's always hard to identify whether it is him or not. but as far as we know there has never been a false osama bin laden tape. so the odds are that it probably is him. i think what it tells us about al qaeda is that we are now facing a more decentralized, flexible organization. al qaeda central will take claim, will take credit for certain things. it does not really mean that they had daily command and control plan the operation or execute it. it is probably likely that it did originate in yemin-- yemen but the fact that al qaeda does provide a moral and political center for all these groups allows them to take credit for it. >> warner: now if we then add the jordanian double agent suicide bombing which seven cia offers, former colleagues were killed, what does that tell us about al qaeda's capabilities today? >> i think it tells us the same thing. these types of double agent operations tend to be fairly sophisticated. it requires a good degree of

planning and mental execution. it shows us that the adversary is growing in its own sophistication. running different types of operations. and as we hit them in certainly areas, as we neutralize capable, they switch to over things. >> warner: the fact that they were running a counterintelligence agency against the u.s., is this new for them. >> when al qaeda started out its terrorist activity their intel again operations tended to be tactical collection operation, on a target trying to find out timings. these type of double agent operations are level above that. what we are seeing now is a growing sophistication, at least in the intelligence realm of the enemy. it also shows, i think, that we are as a government, as an agency having an impact on them because it is forcing them to strike at what they perceive as some 6 their main enemies. >> warner: have they tried this sort of thing before, sending a false agent or volunteer? >> we have only seen a degree of bad cases, cases against us, hard to tell whether it was bad from the

beginning when they volunteered or they turned bad. we see the sophistication but this i think is on a level a little bit above that, where there was a very clear plan to take action against that facility. so i think this is probably a little more serious. >> warner: now bruce rydell, also a former cia officer said late last week, once you understand the enemy is running counterintelligence again you, you have to ask how many of our other assets aren't who we think they are. do you think that is a danger. >> that always a danger. i think it is a danger that the agency is very well aware of. it does spend a lot of time reviewing the cases, vetting the cases. and i can guarantee you they are doing that right now, reviewing all cases to see who is good, who is bad, what the signs are. the problem is we're engaged in a war. and at no time in anybody's history have you won every single battle against an adversary. every now and then they will win one. they will get one through. we can't guarantee a hundred percent security. we understand that.

that is the risk we take. >> so if you take these two recent attacks, if you take other things had they have been doing this past year, do you think al qaeda is stronger or weaker than it was five years ago. >> i think it is, again one of these things that it is not a clear-cut answer it is one of the unsatisfying answers. clearly al qaeda is weaker in its command and control and sophisticated operations, the types we saw in 9/11. the types we saw where they tried to bomb five airliners coming in from great britan. they have been weakened in that area. but they have also adapted and grown into sophistication and things like counterintelligence and intelligence operations. you can see that the biggest threat right now is within afghanistan. they are feeling the pain. they are feeling the hurt. they are trying to survive. the christmas bombing, while dangerous also shows that one half assed operation can cause significant damage. but it was an operation that demonstrated a lack of expertise and

professionalism what we had become accustomed to with ala. so the answer is both. >> warner: now how good are we? >> i think... again, i want to be... it will look like i'm biased but i think we're very good at meeting the threats, identifying what the threats are going to be. the issue is it is a race against time, so to speak in that the adversary shifts and changes. and we tend to catch up very quickly. we should be in a position where we can anticipate what those changes are before they get there. such as identifying which of the next tier of countries al qaeda is going to try to establish a presence. we know yemen is a problem. >> we should be looking at where they will be going. al qaeda tends to shift to countries where there is a degree of chaos. where there is able to stride in with limited control. so we need to be anticipating that. >> are you saying that the trade craft in the u.s. as it is known, in the

intelligence agencys is good but is still not adapting fast enough. >> i think the trade craft is very good for what we are doing. but it needs to adapt quickly. i-- . >> warner: is it in. >> i think it is, but at times it's like most things. at times we adapt very quickly. we put it into place and at certain times the adversary may have changed their trade craft themselves. so we've got to match telephone. it's like a ping-pong match. >> adubato: so-- . >> warner: so do we have a handle on this evolution, how al qaeda a is dapting, are we adapting to meet it? >> time sometimes we are but sometimes we are not. al qaeda is more decentralized and sophisticated. we at times become fixated on certain issues like getting osama bin laden. that is an important part of it. but it tends to be more of a justice issue, of a revenge issue, and dealing a moral blow or blow to the morale of the enemy. but is not the end all, be all t will not solve our problem.

we are faced with a global kournt insurgency and we have to deal with it on that level with a host of tools, not just intelligence and military, important as they are, but social, economic information et cetera. >> warner: do you think at times we are too focused on getting other top leaders? >> i think we do. >> warner: or is that actually very useful. >> it is useful. but at times it become it's the end-all, be-all, almost as if we want to declare an victory if we get one, twoo three individuals that will not give us victory it is important how we define victory and for me that is creating stability and in an areas where these people can't thrive and grow. if you are fighting a counterinsurgency you have to deny the population to the enemy. and that becomes the most important part. not just securing the population, but denying their support and goodwill. >> warner: you describe it almost like a cancer that then sprouts up, takes root in other areas. >> it is like a cancer. >> woodruff: . >> warner: where is another area we are not paying enough attention to. >> it is hard to anticipate. i could see sub sahhar ran africa becoming a problem.

we are paying tension but it becomes a resource issue. the intelligence community doesn't have the resources to hit everything with the full trening it wants to, we are commited with afghanistan and pakistan. we are becoming heavily committed into yemen. you can see commitment into somalia but there is a point where the system begins to say we just don't have enough resources. and part of the solution to the problem is devoting enough resources to the end. >> warner: you are saying that right now al qaeda really still has the momentum. >> al qaeda is developing momentum. you can see it coming. they were on the defensive for the longest time. they have us ed the time to survive and to begin to recuperate. the threat of al qaeda in yemen is growing. the chaos in somalia is significant and it's still a problem. so they are using this and they are starting to develop the momentum. i am not ready to say they have the initiative yet. but if we don't stop them, they will. >> warner: so how many years do you think we're going to be at this? >> well, unfortunately, unless there a dramatic change, at least ten or 15 years, maybe more. this is not a problem that

is won easily it is not an enemy that is defeated easily. it's not meeting armies on a field of battle and crushing them. this has become a social movement. that's a problem. movements are difficult to defeat. >> warner: luis rueda, thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> margaret gets a different view from a former cia agent >> woodruff: margaret gets a different view from a former c.i.a. agent later this week. >> ifill: next, a very big fish story about the battle among midwestern states over a growing threat to the great lakes ecosystem. newshour correspondent tom bearden reports. >> big one, big one. >> reporter: these are the invaders. large fish that leap high out of the water when distushed. they are called asian carp. the chinese have been growing them for food for a thousand years. but to americans, they are an invasive species, destroying the habitat of native fish in the mississippi river and its tribuy tears, all the way from the gulf of mexico to chicago. the fear that they will do the same to the great lakes has set state against state with michigan filing suit

along with five other great lake states to force illinois and the federal government to stop these fish in their tracks. >> this is a big head carp right here, and this is a little guy. i have collected them on the illinois river where they easily are twice that length, they would weigh upwards upwards-- upwards of 50 pound its, they will eat probably half their body weight in plankton ef erie day. >> eating that much plankton scares jim robin rhett, vice president of animal regulation at the shed aquarium in chicago. plankton consist of several species of tiny plants and animals in the water. they are the foundation of the entire food chain. >> it is an issue that is a potential time bomb, i would say. it would have a devastating affect on the great lakes if the asian carp were to get in there and be able to reproduce in huge numbers. it could wipe out the upwards of $7 billion fish ree in the great lakes by just outcompeting all the desirable fish. >> reporter: 125 miles across the lake in

muskegen michigan, commercial fishermen is worried the carp could destroy his business. he spent decades trying to cope with the more than 180 invasive species already in lake michigan. >> i am quite certain that the commercial fishing business in michigan, and in all the great lake states has been driven down by the invasive species arrival. because it keeps changing the game. and fisherman are adaptive creatures, you know, but the adaptions cost money and time and create big issues. and we get worried about the next one just like the carp. >> reporter: one path for invasive species was the chicago san taree and ship canal, hail as an engineering marvel when the city opened it in 1900, the canal reversed the flow of the chicago river and established a waterlink between lake michigan and the mississippi river system. the canal made chicago an important port and it also carried sewage away from the city. to stop the carp from using

the canal to enter lake michigan, the u.s. army corps of engineers built an underwater electric barrier in 2002. a second larger installation followed. and a third is planned. >> dna found here are both kinds of carp. both kinds of carp found here. >> reporter: but when small traces of carp dna showed up beyond the barriers, michigan attorney general mike cox asked the supreme court to order chicago to close the locks that link the river to the lake. >> there are ecological and economic dangers to the great lakes. and quite simply, they are biological terrorist. and if they get in our great lakes and hit-- impact the ecology and the economy of eight different states, two different canadian provinces, it could cost billions. >> reporter: on tuesday the court issued a one sentence statement denying michigan's request to immediately close the locks. while the preliminary

injunction was denied, cox says the supreme court could order the larger case back to a lower court, appoint a special master to oversee a settlement or order the waterway to be permanently closed. henry henderson works for the natural resources defense council that supported michigan's lawsuit. henderson says the only real solution is to physically wall off the lake from the river as it was in the 17th century. >> the barrier has not been adequate. it never has been adequate. and it's not going to be adequate. they are going to be very, very hard to eradicate. and we, i think we can't eradicate them. that is why we need to figure out and institute a permanent barrier so they don't get into the great lakes. >> i was amazed this morning how many salt trucks were lined up. >> reporter: but john and dell who run barge companies say closing the locks would destroy their industry. >> well, the first thing is that it would put us right out of business. if we don't have barges coming through the locks, we don't have any activity at all. >> on the chicago san itaree ship canal system which we

are standing right in front of, 16.9 million tons move through that system. if you equate that to trucks, that is 1.3 million truckloads. and close to 280 some odd thousand rail cars. the infrastructure in this area couldn't handle that kind of capacity overnight. >> reporter: john even doubts whether closing the locks would accomplish anything. >> with regard to the locks, you know, the locks are not necessarily designed to be watertight. i mean they come through, they hold water but they are all designed to leak a little bit. so that may not be the effective method, if they do choots to close the locks. >> the walls are like three feet thick. >> reporter: dick is the executive director of the metropolitan water reclamation district of greater chicago. the agency that separates the canal system. he says if the court orders the locks closed in the future, thousands of homes would flood during a severe storm. the metro train tracks would be underwater. sewage would back up in

thousands of basements. >> our last big storm was in september 2008. we had nine inches of rain across the whole chicago area. we ended up discharging 11 billion gallons of water to lake michigan for flood relief. >> reporter: so these are not rare owe kurnss. >> these are not rare. >> reporter: in terms of flooding they've only had to open any of the locks nine times since 1995, or the past 25 years. in our pleadings we don't ask the supreme court not to allow them to open the locks for flooding. obviously we want a provision in the order for that. we're trying to be eminently reasonable. >> reporter: paul jensen worries that while the states battle it out in court, businesses like his might get eaten alive. >> well, we're obviously the small guys. but whether we are going to get eaten by chicago, i don't know. if they would eat our fish, we would be happier. >> reporter: on tuesday the army corps of engineers announced it had found traces of carp dna in lake michigan itself, indicating the fish may have already

reached the lake. but scientists say that doesn't necessarily mean that a breeding population has been established. yet. >> obama administration >> ifill: obama administration officials plan to meet with midwest governors next month about the carp issue. >> woodruff: finally tonight , a coming together of journalism and music around the world. one example comes from russia where the most popular political song since the fall of the soviet union is called "a man like putin." the song is about the country's prime minister and former president. the story of the producers and the performers who made it happen is told in a new pbs program. here's an excerpt. the reporter is alexis bloom. >> in putin's russia moscow is a city of bright lights and glamor. however heavy-handed putin may be, he has presided over an era of relative stability and prosperity. and he remains very popular .

>> in moscow's glittering night, it's all about enjoying the moment. the karaoke clubs are packed. and they're still playing that same old tune .-x- 7 ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ . >> reporter: this night was a reunion. yana and irenea promised to take the stage for us and sing the song that made them famous. >> practically the song of a generation. in 30 years they will make a movie about the putin era and they will remember the song. >> reporter: and yellin, the old rock 'n' roll dissident

says he has no regrets. the song became the anthem for the again railings. >> i am a professional. i can write whatever you want. if i were asked to write an anti-putin song by some foreign intelligence service i would do it for the money. and then i would laugh because a song like that doesn't have a future. there is no market right now for a song that criticizes putin. >> it is futile to criticize putin . >> that >> woodruff: that story and others can be seen tonight on "sound tracks: music without borders" on most pbs stations. >> ifill: again, the major developments of the day. president obama offered new initiatives to help the middle class. an ethiopian airlines plane crashed early this morning, just off beirut, lebanon. 90 people were on board, but

there was no sign of survivors. >> sue sigh bomber in baghdad killed at least 37 iraqis. the newshour is always online. hari sreenivasan, in our newsroom, previews what's there. hari? >> our haiti coverage continues with web dispatches from ray suarez and extended excerpts from our interview with paul farmer, who is helping coordinate medical efforts in port-au-prince. on art beat, haitian-american poet patrick sylvain reads "port of sorrows" written after the earthquake. there's also an update on venezuelan president hugo chavez's moves to jumpstart his country's economy by devaluing the currency. that comes from michael shifter of the inter-american dialogue. and find out about our experimental state of the union project. >> and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff.

>> we'll see you on-line, and again here tomorrow evening. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour is provided by:

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